loon的个人主页 - 老虎社区

loon

loon

日内短线，自由交易

IP属地：广东

75关注

5粉丝

5主题

0勋章

2020-11-27

利用比特币搞传销，42亿美元上缴国库！

@话题虎:【话题】特大比特币传销案告破，16人获刑，42亿美元上缴国库！

2020-09-18

小利好，大涨？

Cassava Sciences +21% on insider purchase

2020-08-05

$诺瓦瓦克斯医药(NVAX)$大波动开始？

2020-07-30

$淘屏(TAOP)$中概股，韭菜收割机

2020-07-30

$柯达(KODK)$尾盘跳水

2020-07-30

$柯达(KODK)$跌停跳水法

2020-07-21

$SOS Limited(SOS)$信而富改名

2020-07-16

$Liberty Tripadvisor Holdings Inc(LTRPB)$换手率0.04%！

2020-07-16

$基因技术ADR(GENE)$3000%+换手率

2020-07-13

$微美全息(WIMI)$纯粹博傻

2020-07-10

$跟谁学(GSX)$这个逼空不可持继

2020-07-07

$Tiziana Life Sciences PLC(TLSA)$低换手率

2020-07-06

$万国数据(GDS)$浑水不关注吗？

2020-07-01

$Polar Power Inc.(POLA)$换手率4000%，临收盘暴拉

2020-06-20

空空如也！

对话跟谁学 CEO 陈向东：如果你对中国在线教育的长期有信心，对当下就越有耐心

2020-06-17

$海川证券(MTC)$改名了

2020-06-12

$中国天然资源(CHNR)$熟悉的套路

2020-06-11

$Genius Brands International Inc(GNUS)$前一天盘前大幅高开，今天盘前大幅低开，多空切换太快了

2020-06-11

$美美证券(MTC)$摧枯拉朽

2020-06-11

$华富教育(WAFU)$盘前涨5倍

去老虎APP查看更多动态

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20:07","market":"us","language":"en","title":"Cassava Sciences +21% on insider purchase","url":"https://stock-news.laohu8.com/highlight/detail?id=2068199857","media":"Gaurav Batavia","summary":"Cassava Sciences (NASDAQ:SAVA) +21% on disclosing that Eric Schoen, CFO bought 10000 common shares o","content":"<html><body><div><div>\n<p>Cassava Sciences <span>(NASDAQ:SAVA)</span> <font color=\"green\">+21%</font> on disclosing that Eric Schoen, CFO bought 10000 common shares on  Sept. 17 at $7.03 for transaction value of $70,300.</p>\n<p>In another event, director Sanford Robertson buys 213,719 shares on Sept. 17 at $6.98/share.</p>\n</div><div><p><b>See all stocks on the move »</b></p></div><div><p>Now read: <b>Encouraging lupus data lifts Kezar Life Sciences, up 9% after hours »</b></p></div></div></body></html>","source":"seekingalpha","collect":0,"html":"<!DOCTYPE html>\n<html>\n<head>\n<meta http-equiv=\"Content-Type\" content=\"text/html; charset=utf-8\" />\n<meta name=\"viewport\" 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Batavia</strong></a>\n\n\n</h4>\n\n</header>\n<article>\n<div>\n<p>Cassava Sciences (NASDAQ:SAVA) +21% on disclosing that Eric Schoen, CFO bought 10000 common shares on  Sept. 17 at $7.03 for transaction value of $70,300.\nIn another event, director Sanford Robertson ...</p>\n\n<a href=\"https://seekingalpha.com/news/3615275-cassava-sciencesplus-21-on-insider-purchase\">Web Link</a>\n\n</div>\n\n\n</article>\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n","type":0,"thumbnail":"","relate_stocks":{"SAVA":"Cassava Sciences Inc"},"source_url":"https://seekingalpha.com/news/3615275-cassava-sciencesplus-21-on-insider-purchase","is_english":true,"share_image_url":"https://static.laohu8.com/5a36db9d73b4222bc376d24ccc48c8a4","article_id":"2068199857","content_text":"Cassava Sciences (NASDAQ:SAVA) +21% on disclosing that Eric Schoen, CFO bought 10000 common shares on  Sept. 17 at $7.03 for transaction value of $70,300.\nIn another event, director Sanford Robertson buys 213,719 shares on Sept. 17 at 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09:35","market":"us","language":"zh","title":"对话跟谁学 CEO 陈向东：如果你对中国在线教育的长期有信心，对当下就越有耐心","url":"https://stock-news.laohu8.com/highlight/detail?id=2044583412","media":"品玩","summary":"2020 年上半年，全国经历了一场网课、在线教育的风潮。当前的在线教育行业可谓处于一个变化的关键节点，玩家众多且竞争激烈，处于高速发展的过程中。跟谁学作为第一家在美国上市的中国 K12 在线教育机构，","content":"<html><body><article><p>2020 年上半年，全国经历了一场网课、在线教育的风潮。当前的在线教育行业可谓处于一个变化的关键节点，玩家众多且竞争激烈，处于高速发展的过程中。</p><p><a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/GSX\">跟谁学</a>作为第一家在美国上市的中国 K12 在线教育机构，目前市值超过 120 亿美元。在 2018 年教育行业同行们都处于亏损状态时，跟谁学却依靠“直播大班课”模式实现盈利，成为黑马。</p><p>跟谁学创始人兼 CEO 陈向东曾在 6 周年发布会上表示：“今天我们看到的数据显示，中国越来越多的家长开始相信在线教育，开始尝试在线教育，越来越多的人才也加入到了这个行业。”</p><img src=\"https://fid-75186.picgzc.qpic.cn/20200619093516322d235clb41gjlu64\"/><p>随着跟谁学的知晓度越来越高，这家公司越来越受关注，甚至遭受了十次做空。而一直坚持大班直播课的跟谁学，为何成立 5 年后选择在美国上市？上市前后，公司有什么变化？对于 5G 等新兴技术跟谁学又有什么态度？跟谁学的企业价值观是什么？PingWest品玩与跟谁学 CEO 陈向东进行了独家专访，就在线教育行业相关话题进行了近 1 小时的深入探讨。</p><p>以下是整理之后双方的对话内容。<strong>回报五年来伙伴的信任</strong></p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：正好借今天的机会，和陈向东老师来聊聊关于跟谁学这六年对于在线教育行业的一些理解。</p><p>跟谁学从 2014 年6 月成立到现在有六年，IPO（编者注：Initial Public Offerings，首次公开募股）大概一年多时间。如果用一句话来形容过去这一年，可以说是命运的大悲大喜、大开大合。你看，股价高，收入在涨。今年第一季度，从数据上看跟谁学是一个非常健康的公司，可偏偏有人不信，有人提出质疑。</p><p>从上市到现在，您说过您不关心股价，但是股价会直接影响到对外的一些策略。我想知道公司从创业到上市，把所有信息对外透明化，到遭遇一些质疑，再去回应质疑，经历了种种挑战之后，您对行业看法有没有一些改变？</p><img src=\"https://fid-75186.picgzc.qpic.cn/20200619093517321d235k7lv0o5dyuc\"/><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：在此之前我想先分享一下小时候的故事。</p><p>我是个来自农村的孩子，小时候家里很穷，但招待亲戚朋友，总会做烙面条加荷包蛋。我们家里的鸡蛋从来不吃，都拿来卖。于是每一次我妈妈都会去借别人的鸡蛋，等到还鸡蛋时，我妈妈总会叫我挑一个最大的。</p><p>我说妈为什么要还一个大的？她说好借好还，还一个更大的，以后才好借。</p><p>说这个是因为小时候很多东西，对个人的成长起到非常重要的作用。</p><p>我创业其实和很多人的创业不一样，你看我是四十三岁开始创业的，有人开玩笑说任正非也是四十三岁创业。这时候已经有自己的世界观、价值观，对自己有很清醒的认知了。创业初期的很多伙伴，他们拿着非常低的工资，因此我觉得一定要对得起他们的信任。</p><p>所以去年 6 月 6 号，在美国上市的一刹那，我的心算放下了，因为市值也蛮高。其实之前路演途中有投资人问我，你为什么上市？拿这钱干嘛？我说没想好，但我没觉得我们缺钱。你知道教育行业是预收款模式，我们在服务家长，他们把钱交给你，相当于每天都在融资，所以我们实际上不缺钱。</p><p>他说没缺钱，你为什么上市？我是为了做品牌，成为一个全球性的公司，不断赢得更好的人才。因为全世界优秀的公司很多是上市公司，全中国比较好的教育公司，<a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/EDU\">新东方</a>、<a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/TAL\">好未来</a>也都在美国上市。<strong>经历艰难时刻</strong></p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：上市之后其实会有很多变化，无论是个人还是公司。跟谁学经历了怎样的过程？您是如何看待这些变化的？</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：上市几个月，我们的股票涨得很好，同行说你们可以再增发一些，现在市场不错，价钱也比较高，多好。我说我们不缺钱，公司绝对不增发。后来我们在去年 12 月份的时候，我们回购了 8000 多万元的股票。今年 5 月 6 号，我们董事会又对外宣布回购 1.5 亿美元的股票。有人认为说我们是针对做空才回购，其实不是，很简单，如果你对中国在线教育的长期有信心的话，对当下就会有耐心。</p><p>毕竟上市公司对股东最好的回报方法就是两个，一个是分红，一个是回购股票，目前回购股票是最好的方法。所以上市之后，我每天会看股票价格，但并不关心它价格高低。因为我们公司进入市场才一年，赢得投资人的信任需要时间，同时我们又是一个在线教育公司，净值增长很快。股票价格只是反映了市场的大概变化，另一方面我也可以通过这个变化与公司内部进行更充分的沟通。</p><p>你知道组织如人，跟谁学去年上市才五岁，上市股票价格相当于别人对你的一种评价。五岁的孩子如果不能够正确地认知自己，就被外部所迷惑，被股票价格所迷惑，我觉得是个灾难。所以作为CEO，我时时刻刻要警醒自我与团队，要免受外部的诱惑，更好的发展，更有敬畏心。不过其实随着公司的快速发展，我们正迎来公司最艰难的时刻。</p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：最艰难的时刻怎么去定义？</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：<strong>第一，当学生家长越来越多，要服务好他们，其实非常艰难的。第二，当伙伴越来越多，员工越来越多，你要想让他们都具备同样的坚守、乐观与对未来的美好向往，同样非常艰难。第三，做一家快速成长的组织，不断地内省和自我批判，这也非常艰难。所以怎么能防止熵增，怎么能加强组织的敏捷性、活力与张力，我觉得这也是越发艰难的时刻。</strong></p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：对，上市之后到了这么一个时刻，一个公司的管理半径，思维的半径其实都被拉大了。</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：对，因为表象上是公司的业绩在暴涨，客户的数量在不断的增加，但其实背后的本质是组织规模在不断变大。当规模扩大时，组织外围与组织内部对世界感知上是有很大差异的。</p><p><strong>大规模的组织里，人和人之间的连接就是网络，形成网络连接后，你怎么打造一个新型的组织，让这个规模表现为外在的规模是大的，内在的规模是小的，这是我们永恒的一个思考。</strong><strong>在不确定性中寻找确定性</strong></p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：刚才您提到了在这个过程当中要避免熵增，但其实熵增这个事情其实我们都在避免，这个东西是永远存在的。对于一个企业来说，最大熵就是不确定性，在生存和发展过程当中就面临着最大的不确定性。就当下的在线教育行业而言，跟谁学作为一家上市公司，作为一家中国在线教育领域的头部企业，我们现在面临的最大的不确定性是什么？</p><img src=\"https://fid-75186.picgzc.qpic.cn/20200619093522885d2350w3e49gx7jw\"/><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：我们换个视角，我认为一个真正优秀的企业家是要在不确定性当中去寻找确定性。比方说现在中美的关系比较特别，中概股可能面临着风险，有人认为这是一种不确定性；再比方有人说在线教育在快速发展过程当中，政府会出很多的政策，政策监管存在不确定性；还有人说在线教育如此火爆，引发了更多资本进入，竞争会不断的加剧，获客成本会不断的变高，但因为那些不确定性，公司和公司之间的差距开始拉开。</p><p>我永远是乐观的，我没有把这些当做真正的不确定性。当我们开始决定做在线教育，就通过做减法与取舍，让我们聚焦于自己的战略。做在线直播大班课的时候，其实一切都开始确定起来了，所以我在过去的三年里边，我从来没有觉得不确定过。</p><p><strong>当别人大规模去融资的时候，咱们不融资；当别人都说可以适当竞争，去抄袭对手时，我们关注我们的客户；当竞争对手招人很多，组织规模变大时，我们慢点招，把每个人招对。</strong></p><p>我觉得还是要找到本质。现在做教育公司，学生家长最需要什么？教育最本质是什么？是他们永恒需要最好的老师、最好的服务、最好的教学、最好的效果、最好的改变、最好的陪伴。</p><p>因此我觉得需要透过纷繁复杂的现象来抓本质，通过所有的不确定性看到确定，通过外部的所有的混乱和重构，来看到我们最安静下来的内心的力量，我觉得才是最重要的。<strong>尊重教育市场规律</strong></p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：刚才我们说在确定性当中去寻找不确定性，这个确定性实际上就是我们到底是个什么样的企业，我们到底要做什么样的事情。但整个行业其实是不确定的，你再有定力也会被整个行业裹起往前去走，有些东西是你可以自己不变的。有些东西是外部改变了，必然会对你造成改变的。比方刚才您也提到的获客成本的增加，竞争的激烈，获客成本增加其实就是整个营销运营和推广成本的增加，这个既包括线上的，也包括线下的。</p><p>我们上一个季度的财报整体不错，从数据中可以看到成本的确是在非常明显增长，所以这块的问题就是行业现在看上去很热，资本在涌入，头部企业有好几家，大部分亏损，极少数盈利，但同时运营成本越来越高，客户资源尽管在扩大，但整体上有限。所以长期来看，行业里一直持续高歌猛进的高增长，这件事本身是不是反常识？在线教育这个行业最大的常识，您觉得应该是什么？</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：我看了一下，我们大概是连续七个季度，我们的增长速度超过了350%，连续九个季度 K12 的业务收入增长超过400%，某种程度上就会被浑水质疑。</p><p>不过我想说的是第一，永恒的保持这么高的增长谁都做不到，因为增长的本质是组织本身，市场规模也要匹配上你的增长。第二，线上教育的头部公司的增长，肯定会远远的超越于同时段的、同等规模的、线下的头部教育公司的增长。因为它更加容易规模化，易复制性与技术性更强。第三，我们对自己的快速增长仍然有强大的信心，这是基于对整个中国的教育的信心。第四，获客成本变高是一个不争的事实，这很重要，因为教育不同于一般的传统互联网公司，它要通过辅导老师的服务才能够去完成整个产品和内容的交付，因此边际成本在某种意义上开始趋于恒定。所以我们不能完全用互联网的视角来看，核心竞争力在于我们公司内部对于教育本质的把握，例如学生扩科、口碑传递等等。</p><p>因此外人好奇跟谁学盈利，别人都不盈利，他们觉得跟谁学有一波流量红利。但我觉得除了流量红利之外，最重要的还是来自于组织效率，辅导老师的服务效果更好，会使得你续班率增高，获客更多，转化增多，如此一来，每一个客户的生命周期价值就比别人高。</p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：无论做怎样的业务，我们还是要尊重本身教育市场的规律。</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：对，我们第一季度做的非常漂亮，现金收入可能已经成为了行业的第一名。所以我们相信在后续的几个季度当中，在对于市场获客费用方面的内部的高效率，而使得我们有更多的能力去进行投放。</p><p>所以我跟别人聊天，跟谁学在 2018 年的时候特别难，难极了，因为我们收入才 3.97 亿，同行动辄就是七八个亿的暑假投放。我们在 2019 年也非常难，全年才刚超过 21 亿的营业收入，其他的玩家一个暑假可能投了十几个亿的营销费用。但是现在 2020 年，我们相对来说会非常舒服。因为我们收入上来了，按照盈利性增长的战略，我们可以把钱花掉来获客了。所以你会看到我们的第一季度毛利率是 78%。</p><p>尽管我们的R&amp;D（编者注：Research and development expense，研发费用）的费用算上股权成本快一个亿了，对比网易有道的 R&amp;D 费用加上股票是几千多万，我们的投入应该超过他们很多了。</p><p>但我们的 R&amp;D 的占比小，才占了百分之七点多，所以我们有 67% 可以做获客，可以做利润。不过在今天的这种市场竞争状态下，为了快速增长，肯定得加大投入，所以其实第一季度的市场费用是我们主动增加的，是通过认真的分析和计算，基于当下的 ROI（编者注：return on investment，投资回报率）的判断，我们做的一个重大的决策。<strong>技术为在线教育提供无限可能</strong></p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：刚才有一个点，我印象比较深刻，就是要教育行业来教育、理解市场。教育市场本身有季度性周期，用到的思维方式不同，例如流量意识和流量思维无法打通好多事情，例如最后谁给上课，课上的结果怎么样，这些怎么能标准化，怎么能有好的体验，这些不是流量能够搞定的。</p><p>其实从这个角度上来去看，在线教育行业本质上还是传统行业。所以为什么很多人要开线下班，是因为大家发现规模化后，会本能地把它往传统行业的角度上去做。</p><p>目前看上去跟谁学好像是在反其道而行之的，跟谁学试图把教育行业定义成一个新的行业，比如在线直播大班课，三千多人一块听课。除了类似于大班课，您本身觉得教育行业，如果要从传统行业变成一个新行业，它需要在哪些地方变新？</p><img src=\"https://fid-75186.picgzc.qpic.cn/20200619093523266d23566eg3u7m6xg\"/><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：有三点，第一，教育行业永远是教育行业，行业需要最好的老师，所以我们全力以赴吸引全中国优秀的老师，解决它有两个方法，一个是我们能给更高的薪酬，其次是我们给他们更高的尊重与荣誉。</p><p>第二，技术确确实实对教育的均衡化起了非常大的作用，我们能够选择更有个人魅力的主讲老师，让他们为更多的学生和家长提供教学。成千上万的孩子，甚至远至农村的孩子，只要有根网线接上，就能听到和北京上海一样的好老师的课。这是一个永恒的梦想，而技术在中间提供无限可能。</p><p>比方 5G 技术，让直播的延迟变得更低，交互性可能会更加的顺畅。这原本是基础的串联并联线路，却可以将优秀的老师与学生串起来。我们六年前做教育的时候，其实没有想到过像今天这么快。但是六年之后的今天我们再去规划未来的六年，我们激动地觉得可以做很多的事情。我们公司里有个口号，每个部门的人都需要控制人员规模，但是唯一一个部门的人是永远不需要控制的，那就是技术部门。</p><p>第三个我觉得还特别有意思，现在很多地方的学校，都去报我们的课，去听我们的老师的课，去拆解我们的课。这就是相互学习。我觉得对整个的中国教育行业还是有着非常巨大的影响的，我们特别愿意在整个中国教育的变革当中起到很重要的作用。</p><p>我个人对中国教育还是蛮乐观的，中国的基础教育在过去的几十年里边取得如此迅猛的发展，真的是难以想象的。</p><p>另外有一件小事，去年五月份我们见美国投资人，美国投资人看不懂我们，结果去年十一月份，美国投资人就来找到我，哈佛商学院的教授也来找我，都非常激动，他问我，你们公司有多少人？我说快六千人。他说你有多少内容、产品、技术研发人员？我说有一千多人，怎么了？他说认真体验了我们的产品，并且拆解了我们整个流程，说我们的交互水平和技术水平比美国领先了两到三年。我反问道，美国像我们这样的公司有多少技术研发？他说两三百个。<strong>教育让世界与人变得更美好</strong></p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：这也是我后来发现一些美国公司得出的一个共同结论，人数其实特别的重要。我们全国高校每年毕业生大概五六百万，大概有三百万是理工科专业，如果其中能有一百五十万人从事本职工作，其实优势还是很大的，规模性很重要。</p><p>所以我听您讲技术对公司的改变，直播大班课只是个例子，背后是通过投入研发，做到了很多六年前没有想过的事情。以后 5G、VR 等等技术会让教育变得更加普及化，因此要持续投入。</p><p>我们知道跟谁学经常强调文化价值观，因为它本身很重要。如果我们把它再往上上升一个高度，去讲整个在线教育行业和教育行业的价值观，你认为在线行业的价值观应该是什么？教育行业价值观应该是什么？</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：我觉得其实都是一样的，就是用爱去配得上美好，核心点还是爱，你把另外一个生命的灵魂给它唤醒，让它变得美好，变得对未来充满向往，这是永恒存在的。所以我们提炼出我们的教育理念，点燃兴趣、培养习惯、塑造人格，我们要让更多的人变得更好。</p><p>当时在确定价值观的时候，我们还经过内部讨论，我们是谁，我们希望我们是谁。我就提出想法，我们是一群向往美好的伙伴，我们希望我们在一起的奋斗拼搏和不断精进，每个人都能够在这世界上创造出一些美好。通过创造美好、享受别人给我们创造美好的同时，我们每个人都能够成为美好的一部分，这是我们在想做的一个事情。</p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：最后聊聊整个产业，因为现在大家都在讲产业互联网，其实我觉得可以把这个事理解成整个中国的各个产业和商业领域的数字化和<a href=\"https://laohu8.com/S/5RE.SI\">智能</a>化的升级。</p><p>现在我们去谈教育行业，教育行业现在也面临着整个数字化和智能化的升级，在线教育是其中的一种非常重要的形态，在线教育并不是一个特别新的事物，但这么多年它在不断地演进。在线教育从技术的路径和商业的路径上怎么去演进，才能够真的去帮助我们整个中国的教育行业再实现一次真正的彻底的升级？</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：做技术，我们得看技术的本质是什么，技术的本质是把可重复的事情让机器在做。</p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：把任何事变得Automation，就是技术。</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：对，所以技术和教育的结合上，也是把人能做到的一些事情，变得可重复、能复制。这大概是从技术上的我们对教育行业的一个理解，不过其中的核心还是人。所以我甚至还开玩笑说，<strong>最大的技术就是去定义出一家公司非常独特的一种哲学，能够让你的每一个内在的人都能够燃烧他们的生命，让他们去感召更多和他们一样的人，一起来产生更加伟大的合作，来使得他们的生命通过服务他人而变得更加的美好、更加的富有、更加的有意义</strong>，所以与其琢磨技术本身的变革，不如琢磨这件事。</p><p><strong>PingWest品玩</strong>：就是 technology to identify humanity 这个事。</p><p><strong>陈向东</strong>：对，我觉得这其实也是个技术。我们会做两个事，一个通过技术本身，比如数据、AI、智能云等，更好地服务学生和家长；第二是构建系统，协作的系统，激励的系统，分粮食的系统。这个系统也很重要。</p><p>另外技术背后其实存在一种艺术化的东西，它不会以代码的形式展现，却会影响人一生的言行举止。我们现在做教育，就是在用这种东西去影响学生，同时也在内部感染员工，动员所有人，让大家的生活都变得更美好。</p></article></body></html>","source":"tencent","collect":0,"html":"<!DOCTYPE html>\n<html>\n<head>\n<meta http-equiv=\"Content-Type\" content=\"text/html; charset=utf-8\" />\n<meta name=\"viewport\" content=\"width=device-width,initial-scale=1.0,minimum-scale=1.0,maximum-scale=1.0,user-scalable=no\"/>\n<meta name=\"format-detection\" content=\"telephone=no,email=no,address=no\" />\n<title>对话跟谁学 CEO 陈向东：如果你对中国在线教育的长期有信心，对当下就越有耐心</title>\n<style type=\"text/css\">\na,abbr,acronym,address,applet,article,aside,audio,b,big,blockquote,body,canvas,caption,center,cite,code,dd,del,details,dfn,div,dl,dt,\nem,embed,fieldset,figcaption,figure,footer,form,h1,h2,h3,h4,h5,h6,header,hgroup,html,i,iframe,img,ins,kbd,label,legend,li,mark,menu,nav,\nobject,ol,output,p,pre,q,ruby,s,samp,section,small,span,strike,strong,sub,summary,sup,table,tbody,td,tfoot,th,thead,time,tr,tt,u,ul,var,video{ font:inherit;margin:0;padding:0;vertical-align:baseline;border:0 }\nbody{ font-size:16px; line-height:1.5; color:#999; background:transparent; }\n.wrapper{ overflow:hidden;word-break:break-all;padding:10px; }\nh1,h2{ 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}\na{text-decoration:none; color:#2a4b87;}\n.meta .head { display: inline-block; overflow: hidden}\n.head .h-thumb { width: 30px; height: 30px; margin: 0; padding: 0; border-radius: 50%; float: left;}\n.head .h-content { margin: 0; padding: 0 0 0 9px; float: left;}\n.head .h-name {font-size: 13px; color: #eee; margin: 0;}\n.head .h-time {font-size: 11px; color: #7E829C; margin: 0;line-height: 11px;}\n.small {font-size: 12.5px; display: inline-block; transform: scale(0.9); -webkit-transform: scale(0.9); transform-origin: left; -webkit-transform-origin: left;}\n.smaller {font-size: 12.5px; display: inline-block; transform: scale(0.8); -webkit-transform: scale(0.8); transform-origin: left; -webkit-transform-origin: left;}\n.bt-text {font-size: 12px;margin: 1.5em 0 0 0}\n.bt-text p {margin: 0}\n</style>\n</head>\n<body>\n<div class=\"wrapper\">\n<header>\n<h2 class=\"title\">\n对话跟谁学 CEO 陈向东：如果你对中国在线教育的长期有信心，对当下就越有耐心\n</h2>\n\n<h4 class=\"meta\">\n\n\n2020-06-19 09:35 北京时间&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;<a href=http://gu.qq.com/resources/shy/news/detail-v2/index.html#/?id=nesSN202006190935237949639e&s=b><strong>品玩</strong></a>\n\n\n</h4>\n\n</header>\n<article>\n<div>\n<p>2020 年上半年，全国经历了一场网课、在线教育的风潮。当前的在线教育行业可谓处于一个变化的关键节点，玩家众多且竞争激烈，处于高速发展的过程中。跟谁学作为第一家在美国上市的中国 K12 在线教育机构，目前市值超过 120 亿美元。在 2018 年教育行业同行们都处于亏损状态时，跟谁学却依靠“直播大班课”模式实现盈利，成为黑马。跟谁学创始人兼 CEO 陈向东曾在 6 周年发布会上表示：“今天我们看到...</p>\n\n<a href=\"http://gu.qq.com/resources/shy/news/detail-v2/index.html#/?id=nesSN202006190935237949639e&s=b\">Web Link</a>\n\n</div>\n\n\n</article>\n</div>\n</body>\n</html>\n","type":0,"thumbnail":"https://static.tigerbbs.com/6c270f4f234db14bb09d64aec8f85a31","relate_stocks":{},"source_url":"http://gu.qq.com/resources/shy/news/detail-v2/index.html#/?id=nesSN202006190935237949639e&s=b","is_english":false,"share_image_url":"https://static.laohu8.com/9a95c1376e76363c1401fee7d3717173","article_id":"2044583412","content_text":"2020 年上半年，全国经历了一场网课、在线教育的风潮。当前的在线教育行业可谓处于一个变化的关键节点，玩家众多且竞争激烈，处于高速发展的过程中。跟谁学作为第一家在美国上市的中国 K12 在线教育机构，目前市值超过 120 亿美元。在 2018 年教育行业同行们都处于亏损状态时，跟谁学却依靠“直播大班课”模式实现盈利，成为黑马。跟谁学创始人兼 CEO 陈向东曾在 6 周年发布会上表示：“今天我们看到的数据显示，中国越来越多的家长开始相信在线教育，开始尝试在线教育，越来越多的人才也加入到了这个行业。”随着跟谁学的知晓度越来越高，这家公司越来越受关注，甚至遭受了十次做空。而一直坚持大班直播课的跟谁学，为何成立 5 年后选择在美国上市？上市前后，公司有什么变化？对于 5G 等新兴技术跟谁学又有什么态度？跟谁学的企业价值观是什么？PingWest品玩与跟谁学 CEO 陈向东进行了独家专访，就在线教育行业相关话题进行了近 1 小时的深入探讨。以下是整理之后双方的对话内容。回报五年来伙伴的信任PingWest品玩：正好借今天的机会，和陈向东老师来聊聊关于跟谁学这六年对于在线教育行业的一些理解。跟谁学从 2014 年6 月成立到现在有六年，IPO（编者注：Initial Public Offerings，首次公开募股）大概一年多时间。如果用一句话来形容过去这一年，可以说是命运的大悲大喜、大开大合。你看，股价高，收入在涨。今年第一季度，从数据上看跟谁学是一个非常健康的公司，可偏偏有人不信，有人提出质疑。从上市到现在，您说过您不关心股价，但是股价会直接影响到对外的一些策略。我想知道公司从创业到上市，把所有信息对外透明化，到遭遇一些质疑，再去回应质疑，经历了种种挑战之后，您对行业看法有没有一些改变？陈向东：在此之前我想先分享一下小时候的故事。我是个来自农村的孩子，小时候家里很穷，但招待亲戚朋友，总会做烙面条加荷包蛋。我们家里的鸡蛋从来不吃，都拿来卖。于是每一次我妈妈都会去借别人的鸡蛋，等到还鸡蛋时，我妈妈总会叫我挑一个最大的。我说妈为什么要还一个大的？她说好借好还，还一个更大的，以后才好借。说这个是因为小时候很多东西，对个人的成长起到非常重要的作用。我创业其实和很多人的创业不一样，你看我是四十三岁开始创业的，有人开玩笑说任正非也是四十三岁创业。这时候已经有自己的世界观、价值观，对自己有很清醒的认知了。创业初期的很多伙伴，他们拿着非常低的工资，因此我觉得一定要对得起他们的信任。所以去年 6 月 6 号，在美国上市的一刹那，我的心算放下了，因为市值也蛮高。其实之前路演途中有投资人问我，你为什么上市？拿这钱干嘛？我说没想好，但我没觉得我们缺钱。你知道教育行业是预收款模式，我们在服务家长，他们把钱交给你，相当于每天都在融资，所以我们实际上不缺钱。他说没缺钱，你为什么上市？我是为了做品牌，成为一个全球性的公司，不断赢得更好的人才。因为全世界优秀的公司很多是上市公司，全中国比较好的教育公司，新东方、好未来也都在美国上市。经历艰难时刻PingWest品玩：上市之后其实会有很多变化，无论是个人还是公司。跟谁学经历了怎样的过程？您是如何看待这些变化的？陈向东：上市几个月，我们的股票涨得很好，同行说你们可以再增发一些，现在市场不错，价钱也比较高，多好。我说我们不缺钱，公司绝对不增发。后来我们在去年 12 月份的时候，我们回购了 8000 多万元的股票。今年 5 月 6 号，我们董事会又对外宣布回购 1.5 亿美元的股票。有人认为说我们是针对做空才回购，其实不是，很简单，如果你对中国在线教育的长期有信心的话，对当下就会有耐心。毕竟上市公司对股东最好的回报方法就是两个，一个是分红，一个是回购股票，目前回购股票是最好的方法。所以上市之后，我每天会看股票价格，但并不关心它价格高低。因为我们公司进入市场才一年，赢得投资人的信任需要时间，同时我们又是一个在线教育公司，净值增长很快。股票价格只是反映了市场的大概变化，另一方面我也可以通过这个变化与公司内部进行更充分的沟通。你知道组织如人，跟谁学去年上市才五岁，上市股票价格相当于别人对你的一种评价。五岁的孩子如果不能够正确地认知自己，就被外部所迷惑，被股票价格所迷惑，我觉得是个灾难。所以作为CEO，我时时刻刻要警醒自我与团队，要免受外部的诱惑，更好的发展，更有敬畏心。不过其实随着公司的快速发展，我们正迎来公司最艰难的时刻。PingWest品玩：最艰难的时刻怎么去定义？陈向东：第一，当学生家长越来越多，要服务好他们，其实非常艰难的。第二，当伙伴越来越多，员工越来越多，你要想让他们都具备同样的坚守、乐观与对未来的美好向往，同样非常艰难。第三，做一家快速成长的组织，不断地内省和自我批判，这也非常艰难。所以怎么能防止熵增，怎么能加强组织的敏捷性、活力与张力，我觉得这也是越发艰难的时刻。PingWest品玩：对，上市之后到了这么一个时刻，一个公司的管理半径，思维的半径其实都被拉大了。陈向东：对，因为表象上是公司的业绩在暴涨，客户的数量在不断的增加，但其实背后的本质是组织规模在不断变大。当规模扩大时，组织外围与组织内部对世界感知上是有很大差异的。大规模的组织里，人和人之间的连接就是网络，形成网络连接后，你怎么打造一个新型的组织，让这个规模表现为外在的规模是大的，内在的规模是小的，这是我们永恒的一个思考。在不确定性中寻找确定性PingWest品玩：刚才您提到了在这个过程当中要避免熵增，但其实熵增这个事情其实我们都在避免，这个东西是永远存在的。对于一个企业来说，最大熵就是不确定性，在生存和发展过程当中就面临着最大的不确定性。就当下的在线教育行业而言，跟谁学作为一家上市公司，作为一家中国在线教育领域的头部企业，我们现在面临的最大的不确定性是什么？陈向东：我们换个视角，我认为一个真正优秀的企业家是要在不确定性当中去寻找确定性。比方说现在中美的关系比较特别，中概股可能面临着风险，有人认为这是一种不确定性；再比方有人说在线教育在快速发展过程当中，政府会出很多的政策，政策监管存在不确定性；还有人说在线教育如此火爆，引发了更多资本进入，竞争会不断的加剧，获客成本会不断的变高，但因为那些不确定性，公司和公司之间的差距开始拉开。我永远是乐观的，我没有把这些当做真正的不确定性。当我们开始决定做在线教育，就通过做减法与取舍，让我们聚焦于自己的战略。做在线直播大班课的时候，其实一切都开始确定起来了，所以我在过去的三年里边，我从来没有觉得不确定过。当别人大规模去融资的时候，咱们不融资；当别人都说可以适当竞争，去抄袭对手时，我们关注我们的客户；当竞争对手招人很多，组织规模变大时，我们慢点招，把每个人招对。我觉得还是要找到本质。现在做教育公司，学生家长最需要什么？教育最本质是什么？是他们永恒需要最好的老师、最好的服务、最好的教学、最好的效果、最好的改变、最好的陪伴。因此我觉得需要透过纷繁复杂的现象来抓本质，通过所有的不确定性看到确定，通过外部的所有的混乱和重构，来看到我们最安静下来的内心的力量，我觉得才是最重要的。尊重教育市场规律PingWest品玩：刚才我们说在确定性当中去寻找不确定性，这个确定性实际上就是我们到底是个什么样的企业，我们到底要做什么样的事情。但整个行业其实是不确定的，你再有定力也会被整个行业裹起往前去走，有些东西是你可以自己不变的。有些东西是外部改变了，必然会对你造成改变的。比方刚才您也提到的获客成本的增加，竞争的激烈，获客成本增加其实就是整个营销运营和推广成本的增加，这个既包括线上的，也包括线下的。我们上一个季度的财报整体不错，从数据中可以看到成本的确是在非常明显增长，所以这块的问题就是行业现在看上去很热，资本在涌入，头部企业有好几家，大部分亏损，极少数盈利，但同时运营成本越来越高，客户资源尽管在扩大，但整体上有限。所以长期来看，行业里一直持续高歌猛进的高增长，这件事本身是不是反常识？在线教育这个行业最大的常识，您觉得应该是什么？陈向东：我看了一下，我们大概是连续七个季度，我们的增长速度超过了350%，连续九个季度 K12 的业务收入增长超过400%，某种程度上就会被浑水质疑。不过我想说的是第一，永恒的保持这么高的增长谁都做不到，因为增长的本质是组织本身，市场规模也要匹配上你的增长。第二，线上教育的头部公司的增长，肯定会远远的超越于同时段的、同等规模的、线下的头部教育公司的增长。因为它更加容易规模化，易复制性与技术性更强。第三，我们对自己的快速增长仍然有强大的信心，这是基于对整个中国的教育的信心。第四，获客成本变高是一个不争的事实，这很重要，因为教育不同于一般的传统互联网公司，它要通过辅导老师的服务才能够去完成整个产品和内容的交付，因此边际成本在某种意义上开始趋于恒定。所以我们不能完全用互联网的视角来看，核心竞争力在于我们公司内部对于教育本质的把握，例如学生扩科、口碑传递等等。因此外人好奇跟谁学盈利，别人都不盈利，他们觉得跟谁学有一波流量红利。但我觉得除了流量红利之外，最重要的还是来自于组织效率，辅导老师的服务效果更好，会使得你续班率增高，获客更多，转化增多，如此一来，每一个客户的生命周期价值就比别人高。PingWest品玩：无论做怎样的业务，我们还是要尊重本身教育市场的规律。陈向东：对，我们第一季度做的非常漂亮，现金收入可能已经成为了行业的第一名。所以我们相信在后续的几个季度当中，在对于市场获客费用方面的内部的高效率，而使得我们有更多的能力去进行投放。所以我跟别人聊天，跟谁学在 2018 年的时候特别难，难极了，因为我们收入才 3.97 亿，同行动辄就是七八个亿的暑假投放。我们在 2019 年也非常难，全年才刚超过 21 亿的营业收入，其他的玩家一个暑假可能投了十几个亿的营销费用。但是现在 2020 年，我们相对来说会非常舒服。因为我们收入上来了，按照盈利性增长的战略，我们可以把钱花掉来获客了。所以你会看到我们的第一季度毛利率是 78%。尽管我们的R&D（编者注：Research and development expense，研发费用）的费用算上股权成本快一个亿了，对比网易有道的 R&D 费用加上股票是几千多万，我们的投入应该超过他们很多了。但我们的 R&D 的占比小，才占了百分之七点多，所以我们有 67% 可以做获客，可以做利润。不过在今天的这种市场竞争状态下，为了快速增长，肯定得加大投入，所以其实第一季度的市场费用是我们主动增加的，是通过认真的分析和计算，基于当下的 ROI（编者注：return on investment，投资回报率）的判断，我们做的一个重大的决策。技术为在线教育提供无限可能PingWest品玩：刚才有一个点，我印象比较深刻，就是要教育行业来教育、理解市场。教育市场本身有季度性周期，用到的思维方式不同，例如流量意识和流量思维无法打通好多事情，例如最后谁给上课，课上的结果怎么样，这些怎么能标准化，怎么能有好的体验，这些不是流量能够搞定的。其实从这个角度上来去看，在线教育行业本质上还是传统行业。所以为什么很多人要开线下班，是因为大家发现规模化后，会本能地把它往传统行业的角度上去做。目前看上去跟谁学好像是在反其道而行之的，跟谁学试图把教育行业定义成一个新的行业，比如在线直播大班课，三千多人一块听课。除了类似于大班课，您本身觉得教育行业，如果要从传统行业变成一个新行业，它需要在哪些地方变新？陈向东：有三点，第一，教育行业永远是教育行业，行业需要最好的老师，所以我们全力以赴吸引全中国优秀的老师，解决它有两个方法，一个是我们能给更高的薪酬，其次是我们给他们更高的尊重与荣誉。第二，技术确确实实对教育的均衡化起了非常大的作用，我们能够选择更有个人魅力的主讲老师，让他们为更多的学生和家长提供教学。成千上万的孩子，甚至远至农村的孩子，只要有根网线接上，就能听到和北京上海一样的好老师的课。这是一个永恒的梦想，而技术在中间提供无限可能。比方 5G 技术，让直播的延迟变得更低，交互性可能会更加的顺畅。这原本是基础的串联并联线路，却可以将优秀的老师与学生串起来。我们六年前做教育的时候，其实没有想到过像今天这么快。但是六年之后的今天我们再去规划未来的六年，我们激动地觉得可以做很多的事情。我们公司里有个口号，每个部门的人都需要控制人员规模，但是唯一一个部门的人是永远不需要控制的，那就是技术部门。第三个我觉得还特别有意思，现在很多地方的学校，都去报我们的课，去听我们的老师的课，去拆解我们的课。这就是相互学习。我觉得对整个的中国教育行业还是有着非常巨大的影响的，我们特别愿意在整个中国教育的变革当中起到很重要的作用。我个人对中国教育还是蛮乐观的，中国的基础教育在过去的几十年里边取得如此迅猛的发展，真的是难以想象的。另外有一件小事，去年五月份我们见美国投资人，美国投资人看不懂我们，结果去年十一月份，美国投资人就来找到我，哈佛商学院的教授也来找我，都非常激动，他问我，你们公司有多少人？我说快六千人。他说你有多少内容、产品、技术研发人员？我说有一千多人，怎么了？他说认真体验了我们的产品，并且拆解了我们整个流程，说我们的交互水平和技术水平比美国领先了两到三年。我反问道，美国像我们这样的公司有多少技术研发？他说两三百个。教育让世界与人变得更美好PingWest品玩：这也是我后来发现一些美国公司得出的一个共同结论，人数其实特别的重要。我们全国高校每年毕业生大概五六百万，大概有三百万是理工科专业，如果其中能有一百五十万人从事本职工作，其实优势还是很大的，规模性很重要。所以我听您讲技术对公司的改变，直播大班课只是个例子，背后是通过投入研发，做到了很多六年前没有想过的事情。以后 5G、VR 等等技术会让教育变得更加普及化，因此要持续投入。我们知道跟谁学经常强调文化价值观，因为它本身很重要。如果我们把它再往上上升一个高度，去讲整个在线教育行业和教育行业的价值观，你认为在线行业的价值观应该是什么？教育行业价值观应该是什么？陈向东：我觉得其实都是一样的，就是用爱去配得上美好，核心点还是爱，你把另外一个生命的灵魂给它唤醒，让它变得美好，变得对未来充满向往，这是永恒存在的。所以我们提炼出我们的教育理念，点燃兴趣、培养习惯、塑造人格，我们要让更多的人变得更好。当时在确定价值观的时候，我们还经过内部讨论，我们是谁，我们希望我们是谁。我就提出想法，我们是一群向往美好的伙伴，我们希望我们在一起的奋斗拼搏和不断精进，每个人都能够在这世界上创造出一些美好。通过创造美好、享受别人给我们创造美好的同时，我们每个人都能够成为美好的一部分，这是我们在想做的一个事情。PingWest品玩：最后聊聊整个产业，因为现在大家都在讲产业互联网，其实我觉得可以把这个事理解成整个中国的各个产业和商业领域的数字化和智能化的升级。现在我们去谈教育行业，教育行业现在也面临着整个数字化和智能化的升级，在线教育是其中的一种非常重要的形态，在线教育并不是一个特别新的事物，但这么多年它在不断地演进。在线教育从技术的路径和商业的路径上怎么去演进，才能够真的去帮助我们整个中国的教育行业再实现一次真正的彻底的升级？陈向东：做技术，我们得看技术的本质是什么，技术的本质是把可重复的事情让机器在做。PingWest品玩：把任何事变得Automation，就是技术。陈向东：对，所以技术和教育的结合上，也是把人能做到的一些事情，变得可重复、能复制。这大概是从技术上的我们对教育行业的一个理解，不过其中的核心还是人。所以我甚至还开玩笑说，最大的技术就是去定义出一家公司非常独特的一种哲学，能够让你的每一个内在的人都能够燃烧他们的生命，让他们去感召更多和他们一样的人，一起来产生更加伟大的合作，来使得他们的生命通过服务他人而变得更加的美好、更加的富有、更加的有意义，所以与其琢磨技术本身的变革，不如琢磨这件事。PingWest品玩：就是 technology to identify humanity 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